Curse

Mesmer in Need · Jun 05, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Monsters are a lot different then other players. Things like shutdown and e-denial are good in pvp, but don't do a great deal in pve. Hexes like backfire and empathy are obsolete compared to spells like ss, as they only effect 1 person. Spells like pre nerf hex eater vortex and CoP are amazing. Mesmers have these great skills that effect many enemies at once, but these have long recharges, and if these were buffed for pve, they could more more useful.

hoyce · Jun 05, 2008, 01:06 AM // 01:06

To tell the truth Mesmers are only classified as being "bad" because:
1. It is way easier to play a different profession, ex. Elementalist, and blow everything up without thought.
2. The classical stereotyping " oh Mes you noob!"

All in all it is way easier to play other classes without thought than to use your brain and play a Mesmer correctly. Like some one noted before Mesmers can deal, no only large amounts of spike damage, but also incapacitate different professions and deal armor ignoring spikes. Without writing anymore of topic, it would be nice to improve overall Mesmer PvE capability, I always thought we were missing an overpowered elite, not that there’s anything wrong with overpowered elites.

Jade · Jun 05, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I think it's a more likely explanation you have no idea how other classes are played well, and thus assume you're being more effective than you are.

PS: Ele AoEDoTs are terrible, and warriors have the best DPS in the game.

Ya, that's gotta be it. I've got no idea. And the other people that agreed with me have no idea. I'm curious why you would assume that I have no idea how any of the other character classes are played? Is it because you think that you're the best GW player out there and that it's inconceivable that anyone could know more than you? Or is it that you character knowledge is based soley around Ele's and Wammo's and because of that you think every other class must suck?

Funny part is, I have one of each profession to play. Hell I even have 2 warriors and 2 ele's. I would say that I'm best at playing mesmer and necromancer. I'm not so good at ritualist, paragon and sin. Sorta so-so with a ranger, derv, and monk.
But I'd say that I'm pretty good at warrior and ele, but then again, who isn't? Best DPS in the game? Sure if that's what you go for. Takes skill to play a wammo or ele? Maybe if you consider "skill" being able to push 1,2,3 and 4 on yur skill bar and cycle thru opponents.

I even found a pic that praises your superior GW knowledge. Thank you for making me see the error of my ways.

Clarissa F · Jun 05, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

"Best dps in the game? Sure, if that's what you go for..."

I heard somewhere that good DPS pressures better and kills stuff faster.

I also read a lot about Guild Wars being a team game. Any coincidence GvG is the pinnacle of PvP? I think Avarre's point was it's a team game, and you were able to select and cast better, maybe, because the ele was giving out good AoE damage, spikes and/or wards, the monk was prot'ing like he should, and the warrior was wreaking havok on the back line. You helped them do their job better, they helped you do yours.

Mesmers are awesome for PvP. Dealing with human reaction times and human frustrations gives a great advantage. In Pve, yes, mesmers are good, but don't try to tell me you would rather have one on your team than an imbagon, ele, godmode warrior or monk. Compared to what other professions can do, sometimes with a mesmer's own skills, they are just good. Interrupt stinks compared to the reaction times of AI, and a ranger can do it better(play them more and you'll see). Hexes can be done better with a necro, with the advantage of a better energy regeneration, because in PvE, there's always shit dying. AoE damage? I heard AI likes to scatter, and, off the top of my head, Rodgort's Invocation, SH, SF, SS, Insidious Parasite, Splinter weapon, et al say hi to Cry of Pain and E-Surge.

I do like the clip. =)

Skye Marin · Jun 05, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

A lot of Mesmer shortcomings in PvE are remedied by using Assassin's Promise, but that takes up an Elite slot, and some skills just aren't fixed with the skill. Also remember that the PvE-PvP split will only be implemented on a handful of skills, because each takes effort to implement. New skills and skill functionality aren't going to be added either. Energy denial in PvE isn't viable, because all monsters have more regen pips and larger energy pools than players, and in hard mode the effect is amplified.

Here's my take:

Quote:

Clumsiness / Wandering Eye - reduce recharge to 5
Energy Burn / Energy Surge / Ineptitude - reduce recharge to 10
Shatter Enchantment / Shatter Hex - reduce cost to 10, reduce recharge to 10
Hex Eater Vortex - reduce recharge to 8, increase damage to 30..126
Energy Drain - Increase energy lost on foe to 2..15
Aneurysm - Increase damage per energy restored to 1..8 damage
Signet of Illusions - Increase number of skill effected to 1..10

I think those changes would be really fun for Mesmers, and not insanely unfair compared to other classes abilities in PvE.

Jade · Jun 05, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

"Best dps in the game? Sure, if that's what you go for..."

I heard somewhere that good DPS pressures better and kills stuff faster.

I also read a lot about Guild Wars being a team game. Any coincidence GvG is the pinnacle of PvP? I think Avarre's point was it's a team game, and you were able to select and cast better, maybe, because the ele was giving out good AoE damage, spikes and/or wards, the monk was prot'ing like he should, and the warrior was wreaking havok on the back line. You helped them do their job better, they helped you do yours.

Mesmers are awesome for PvP. Dealing with human reaction times and human frustrations gives a great advantage. In Pve, yes, mesmers are good, but don't try to tell me you would rather have one on your team than an imbagon, ele, godmode warrior or monk. Compared to what other professions can do, sometimes with a mesmer's own skills, they are just good. Interrupt stinks compared to the reaction times of AI, and a ranger can do it better(play them more and you'll see). Hexes can be done better with a necro, with the advantage of a better energy regeneration, because in PvE, there's always shit dying. AoE damage? I heard AI likes to scatter, and, off the top of my head, Rodgort's Invocation, SH, SF, SS, Insidious Parasite, Splinter weapon, et al say hi to Cry of Pain and E-Surge.

I do like the clip. =)

I agree with what you said Clarissa, except for the part that I have bolded and underlined. If you remember he did say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I think it's a more likely explanation you have no idea how other classes are played well, and thus assume you're being more effective than you are.

I dunno about you, but I read that as him saying that I "have no idea how other classes are played well." I simply disagreed with what he said. Okay, maybe not simply.

Red Sonya · Jun 05, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Mesmers should be a viable and desirable PvE class,

Why, when the holy trinity has been just fine for years and years without the need or use of a mesmer class. Mesmers, sins, rangers have always been SUB classes to the DnD world. Though there is always a handful that think they should be at the front of the line it just ain't gonna happen. Now, if they really wanted to put mesmers into groups give them a clarity skill buff others like they did in Everquest for enchanters and made them more popular than shamans. Everybody wanted an enchanter in their group after clarity came along with it's 2 hour +10 pip energy regen.

Doubt Anet is gonna do that but it would be popular if they did.

Quote:

and warriors have the best DPS in the game.

Easily shutdown though, can't hit what you can't see or reach.

Seef II · Jun 05, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

...which isn't a problem in PvE.

I just want the 5..25 second, 50% Mantra of Recovery back. Oh and HEV please.

fenix · Jun 05, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Meh, just buff [Spiritual Pain], [Mantra of Recovery] and [Hex Eater Vortex] and be done with it.

GourangaPizza · Jun 05, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Have you tried playing or using a hero as a Me/Rt specced in Dom and Channeling? They speed up killings tremendously and faster than a SS N/Rt could. Not to mention, they make cheap bosses like Mobrin fall easily with just a little tweak to their builds.

bhavv · Jun 05, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Meh, just buff [Spiritual Pain], [Mantra of Recovery] and [Hex Eater Vortex] and be done with it.

You missed [Ineptitude] ...

Gargle Blaster · Jun 05, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

one of the main problems with mesmer recharge times is that they are balanced with [mantra of recovery] in mind. I remember a skill change a while back where they buffed mantra and extended the recharg times of about 5 other skills.

Fast casting should be buffed to somthing like: for each rank in this attribute decreases the castiting and activation times of ALL SKILLS by 6%.

edit: i changed 5% (its already about 5%[4.73%]) to 6%

GourangaPizza · Jun 05, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

one of the main problems with mesmer recharge times is that they are balanced with [mantra of recovery]. I remember a skill change a while back where they buffed mantra and extended the recharg times of about 5 other skills.

Fast casting should be buffed to somthing like: for each rank in this attribute decreases the castiting and activation times of ALL SKILLS by 5%.

That will give more QQ. 5% is too much, "all skills" makes it even indomitable. If we were to go by your standing, it go along the lines like: "At Fast Casting rank 3 and above all spells recharge time are reduced by 1%, rank 6: 2%, rank 9: 3%"

Gargle Blaster · Jun 05, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

That will give more QQ. 5% is too much, "all skills" makes it even indomitable. If we were to go by your standing, it go along the lines like: "At Fast Casting rank 3 and above all spells recharge time are reduced by 1%, rank 6: 2%, rank 9: 3%"

im not sure what you mean. lets compair this to...

Expertise is still more effective b/c energy cost is more important than casting time and there are more skills than there are spells.

Abedeus · Jun 05, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Imo - decreased casting of all non-attack skills by 3x Fast Casting. Why? It would mean skills with like 1 second (penetrating shot for instance) would have, like, 36% faster activation. It's like a perma-bit-buffed-Flail with no downsides. Well, you have to be mesmer, but still... And normal attacks would be megabuffed too.

Gargle Blaster · Jun 05, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

exactly! a new use for a mesmer... armor limitations still balance things out.

MithranArkanere · Jun 05, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Mesmers, and water and air elementalists, and smitters, and beast masters, and...

Kemal X · Jun 05, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I have played with my mesmer for.. 16 months or so by now, and I really don't think they suck at PvE, or need buff. Well, maybe my all-time favourite Spiritual Pain could be changed back to old, loved it ^^

upier · Jun 06, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

I dunno about you, but I read that as him saying that I "have no idea how other classes are played well." I simply disagreed with what he said. Okay, maybe not simply.

Either something went really really REALLY wrong on your necro if you found the mesmer to be easier to play OR you had gotten insanely better from playing the necro and that's why you considered that the mesmer was so easy.
Because unlimited energy on a caster IS as easy as it gets.
(I am not stating that playing a mesmer is rocket science - I am just saying that playing a necro is as far from it as it can be in GW!)

gremlin · Jun 06, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Either something went really really REALLY wrong on your necro if you found the mesmer to be easier to play OR you had gotten insanely better from playing the necro and that's why you considered that the mesmer was so easy.
Because unlimited energy on a caster IS as easy as it gets.
(I am not stating that playing a mesmer is rocket science - I am just saying that playing a necro is as far from it as it can be in GW!)

Some truth in that.

I played mesmer through prophesies and was ok till I got to Droks where I began to struggle.

Took a break and played other classes mainly Necro but also ranger and ele.
Some time after Factions came out I got back into Mesmer and found the Southern Shiverpeaks missions a whole lot easier.

Maybe it was a few new skills but I guess the fact I know a lot more about the game and team play also had an effect.

I still don't have the knack of blitzing all of pve with a mesmer but I do still like them and wish there was a mesmer skill rethink on the horizon.